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Post by xyvvz » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:23 pm

So lately, I was dicussing with Undertaker about the german imperial army faction. He told me, that he thought the germans needed another unit, something between the Landsers and Stoßtruppen, which often arrive too late. Since the last patch, they theorhetically arrive earlier, as you can recruit them from world buildings. Sadly, on flandres fields and red ball express, the most, if not only played maps, there are no buildings which one could convert to forward barracks.
And as GeneralCH stated as well, the british lewis gun perhaps comes a bit too early we believe.
Also, many german players choose to stay on the tier 1 building until late game, and are therefore not able to build the much needed Stoßtruppen in late game.
So for those reasons, perhaps maybe theorhetically, a new unit could posssibly be an opportunity to fill this gap.

For historical reasons, I first was against a new unit, but then something came to my mind.
This happened, when GeneralCH said to me that the doctrinal MG-Sharpshooters were in his opinion useless, as they are not good in advancing and not mobile enough.
So Undertaker and I thought, they could,perhaps, be replaced by a "Granatenwerfertrupp" or "(hand-)grenade thrower squad".
AFAIK, units like these really existed and were used with huge success.
I read not long ago, that the best throwers of each battalion were put together and then used as support for the advancing Stoßtrupps. (Only the best ones because there was often a lack of grenades, so none could be wasted, I read)
I would post my source here, but I can´t find it anymore and it was in german anyway...
But this shows at least, that a unit like that would not be just ahistorical fantasy (which I, BTW hate as much as you ;) )

So we developed the idea, and came to the conclusion that the Handgranatenwerfer could perhaps be a unit of 4 men. To be very mobile, they only carry very light weaponary (only armed with mauser c96). Also, they would be very vulnerable to enemy fire, because for the sake of mobility, they are not armoured in any way. This would mean they´d die very fast.
The damage output would be very low as well.
However, they would be armed with all kinds of grenades available, meaning normale grenades, the ability for assault grenades, perhaps gas grenades like the british have in royal engineers, geballte ladung and also smoke grenades.
This would make them very effective at close range, however at long rage they wouldn´t do much damage.
So ingame they could be used to counter british entrenchment and camping, whilst supporting german advancing infantry.

I think as a doctrinal unit in defence in depth commander, they would also fit very well into the passive-aggressive gameplay style, that the doctrine I think, portrays.
Just like the MG-snipers they would be able to counter armour with the geballte ladung, but in contrast to it they could be used very mobile for attacks. They would do reasonably well in defending too, but only against charges, not on long-range combat.

Undertaker then said to me, he thinks this unit should perhaps be available non-doctrinal, but I´m not too sure about that, as they would perhaps be so OP that the costs for them would need to be made so high that nobody would even build them.

this here is a picture of austro-hungarian grenade throwers on the Isonzo-Front

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Re: Handgranatenwerfer

Post by The Soldier » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:37 am

The first thing I thought of when I saw the second paragraph was:

A squad that throws grenades as a primary, e.g. without having to have an order from a player

Which was obviously wrong, but I like the idea of having a squad dedicated to throwing grenades. :) I wonder if they would require the grenades tech to be researched before they could use any of their abilities. It would certainly give the Germans an effective counter against British blobs and the hundreds of emplacements that are bound to follow them. ;)

I'd vote for this to be doctrinal, or at least have some of the abilities removed (like smoke, gas, etc.) to make it non-doctrinal. Maybe it'd start off with the regular grenades and the geballte ladung, and gain Smoke, Gas, and Assault after "upgrading" it in the Defense in Depth doctrine.

If anything, this would be an EXCELLENT replacement for the rather cheap Command-Point unlock for grenades in the Infiltration Tactics doctrine. I'd go for this more than replacing the MG Sharpshooters. Although that would make Infiltration have two doctrinal infantry, so I'm not sure about that.
"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."
~Erwin Rommel

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Re: Handgranatenwerfer

Post by GeneralCH » Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:28 pm

The Landser get grenades and the Stormtroopers have super effective grenade shower...
Though the Landser grenade is too weak against vet infantry sections.

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Re: Handgranatenwerfer

Post by Higgins » Sun May 08, 2016 5:03 pm

Meh, i don´t think a whole new unit is needet, but a bit more damage for the lander-grenades would be great.
First in the line of fire, first into hostile land.

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Re: Handgranatenwerfer

Post by CoHtaku » Wed May 11, 2016 10:18 am

I also like the idea of a squad that specializes in grenade-throwing, but i'd call them 'Bombers' (or 'Kämpfer' in German :P ), since that would be more historically correct.

I agree that they should be a small squad, similar to the Raiding Party, designed to break enemy lines but are quite vulnerable themselves (so they'll probably be a suicide squad, dying after throwing a few grenades to breach the British defences).

I also think it would be cool if they periodically threw grenades automatically - - I mean the British have their Rifle Grenades, so why not?

(For the record, i don't usually use Stoßtruppen because i think they're crap - Give them a Platoon Commander and both MP18 upgrades, and they'll still drop like flies before they can even get close to the enemy trench... :roll: Landser are my go-to infantry throughout the whole game - fighting from afar with Sappenpanzer.)

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